Silencers for survival guns?
 

A couple of interesting sites:

http://www.silencertalk.com/

http://www.saddleryandgunroom.com/hushpower.htm

Check out the silenced/suppressed Mossberg...:bear_w00t:

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

Having an NFA weapon device or AOW is like having a "kick me" sign in your flat file.

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

OK, this one is a PET PEEVE of mine. They are SUPPRESSED. NOT SILENCED.

SILENCED is a Hollyweird term.

You literally cannot SILENCE any weapon. Well, I guess you COULD, but the SUPPRESSOR would be so large, it would very, very unweildy. I've yet to see or shoot ANY suppressor that was SILENT.

Having said that, can you severely reduce the sonic footprint? SURE.

Is it legal? If you jump through all the hoops, sure. IF the sheriff in your county will sign off on the necessary BATF form, yep.

Hint to get the sheriff to sign off on the form. IF you think you want to go this way, SUPPORT your local sheriff BEFORE he gets elected with campaign contributions. It doesn't need to LARGE donations. As a matter of fact, sometimes just volunteering for his campaign staff will work. BUT, supporting him or her BEFORE you ask them the 'favor' of signing off on the BATF form WILL help you get that necessary signature. Same goes for any NFA weapon.

I've worked for a Class 10 manufacturer (anything but NBC weaponry).

I've fired many suppressed weapons. My favorite was a Ruger .22 caliber auto that looked like it had a bull barrel. When you shot it, it sounded like someone coughed in the room you shot it in. But you HAD to use low power ammo that did not cycle the bolt. You would cycle it by hand. No biggie.

I have also fired several other full auto weapons. While it DOES significantly reduce the sonic footprint, they are by NO MEANS silent.

And if you are worried about your 'file' with the BATF or the US gov, don't OWN any weapons. Don't EVER have a ticket. DO NOT POST ON THIS SITE.

And DEFINITELY DO NOT GO TO GUNSMITHING SCHOOL. I got run through the BATF database BEFORE they would accept me and BEFORE I could graduate. So MY FILE is probably several pages FATTER than anyone here. Who cares?

If that's what you are worried about, you got a lot more problems than most.

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

there's a big qualitative difference between filling out 4473s, and having a ffl, and having NFA weapons. it aint 6 of one half dozen of the other. there are search & storage issues that impair one's expectation of privacy in the home or wherever the stuff is store.

as for posting at this forum, nobody cares about that anyways. I am no paranoaic

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

that is an English site. having suppressors in england is legal.

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

What AE said.

He DID leave out that the BATF WILL REQUIRE a 'regular' inspection of any NFA weapons you own.

THEY decide the frequency of 'regular'...

Past that, who cares. I've said all along. That forty plus acres underground with all those Cray computers chomping through all the emails, cell phone calls, wire transfers, etc that are always recorded is really no big deal.

Their LARGEST PROBLEM is being able to pick the CORRECT NEEDLE out of the correct haystack. Always a challenge.

Infidel,
While owning a suppressor in England may be legal, owning a firearm IS NOT.

Kind of defeats the purpose, nicht var?

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

Check your facts on this one.

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

I had a registered class 3 weapon for a number of years...M-16.

Never had a visit, phone call, etc. by any agency. That was about 15 years ago, and I am sure times have changed, however most citizens and even some gun owners falsely assume class 3 etc. weapons are illegal...and have never even tried to acquire one. Shameful.

Maybe if more law abiding folks took up the sport years ago before machine guns got so flippin' expensive...there may have been more public acceptance. We can thank Hollywood and other liberal media a$$holes for demonizing them.

However there are still many clubs that sponsor machine gun shoots that are open to the public.

By the way, I took mom and my family out to shoot it on Mother's Day long ago. She had never fired a rifle in her life and she loved it. :D

As far as owning class 3, NM is still one of the most gun friendly states left in the U.S., and I have a several friends that own multiple machine guns and a few silencers. Never heard them say anything about being visited.

I would love to have..and may still acquire a multi-use SUPPRESSOR (thanks Wallew) for an AR-15, Ruger 9mm carbine, or CZ 452 22lr. and the 17 HMR mentioned on another thread...or perhaps one of the CZ bolt actions in 300 Whisper..

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

This is probably the closest to being a silenced weapon I know of. I've only seen it fired in a video but it's reputation stood for as long as I know.
Quite an interesting weapon!

http://www.eliteukforces.info/images/sbs/l34a1.jpg

Sterling L2A3 Sterling L34A1 silenced
Caliber 9x19mm Luger/Parabellum/NATO
Weight, empty 2,7 kg 3,6 kg
Length (stock closed/open) 481 / 686 mm 660 / 864 mm
Barrel length 196 mm 196 mm
Rate of fire 550 rounds per minute 550 rounds per minute
Magazine capacity 34 rounds 34 rounds
Effective range 200 meters 50-100 meters


The famous Sterling submachine gun was born in around 1942 as "Patchett machine carbine" - a prototype submachine gun, developed by George W. Patchett and originally produced by Sterling Engineering Co in England. Several prototypes were built before the end of the war, and the Sterling-Patchett submachine gun participated in extensive trials, held in UK between 1945 and 1953, when it was finally announced as a winner of trials, and adopted as "9mm Sterling submachine gun L2A1" (factory designation was "Patchett Mk.1"). Sterling submachine guns were produced for British armed forces by Sterling company and Royal Ordnance Arsenal in Fazakerly, England; Long Branch Arsenal in Canada made a slightly modified Sterling under license for Canadian army as C1. In a slightly modified form, known in British service as L2A3 submachine gun or as "Sterling submachine gun, Mark 4" or Sterling Mk.4 in short, it served with British army until early 1990s, when it was finally replaced by troublesome L85A1 assault rifle. Nearly 400 000 of Sterling submachine guns were produced until late 1980s. In 1967, British army adopted the L34A1 / Sterling Mk.5 silenced submachine gun, which is apparently still in limited use with certain special operations elements in British army.
Sterling submachine guns also were widely sold for export, more than 70 countries had purchased various quantities of Sterling submachine guns.
It must be noted that Sterling submachine guns were rather popular among British troops, because of relatively compact size, adequate firepower and acuracy and good reliability.

L2A3 / Sterling Mk.4 submachine gun is blowback operated, selective fired weapons that fires from open bolt. The fire mode selector / manual safety lever is located on the left side of trigger unit, above the grip panel. Tubular receiver, which also serves as a barrel jacket at the front, contains a cylindrical bolt with fixed firing pin. Bolt body has several spiral grooves on its outside surface which collect the dust and fouling from inside the receiver, and thus greatly improve reliability of the gun under field conditions. Feeding is from the left side; magazines are inserted horizontally, and ejection is to the right. Magazines are of slightly curved shape for improved feeding reliability. Buttstock is made from stamped steel and folds down and below the receiver to save space. Standard sights include protected front blade and flip-up rear aperture sight, marked for 100 and 200 yards range, and also protected from sides by sturdy "ears".
Special "high power, submachine-gun only" ammunition was procured by British army for Sterling submachine guns. This ammunition was absolutely safe in Sterling submachine guns, but can cause extensive wear to many 9mm pistols designed for commercial 9x19 ammunition.
L34A1 / Sterling Mk.5 silenced submachine gun differed in the barrel section, as its barrel has some 72 small holes used to vent powder gases into the rear expansion chamber of the integral silencer. This was necessary to decrease the muzzle velocity of the bullet so it would be below the speed of sound. Like its predecessor, the STEN Mk.IIS, the silenced Sterling gun was intended to be fired mostly in semi-automatic mode; the full-automatic fire was for emergency purposes only.

--

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

Trust me on this its not quiet.:D

E-A

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

I ALREADY KNOW THE FACTS ON THIS ONE. IT IS ILLEGAL TO OWN A WEAPON IN ENGLAND. Unless you are law enforcement or some other government agency. Even ALL firearms owners who are members of shooting clubs had to turn them in.

ENGLAND has gone so far as to put people in jail who don't ALLOW thugs to rob them IN THEIR OWN HOMES. They have put ONE GUY in jail for defending his own home WITH A KNIFE. Not a gun. Not a sword. A KITCHEN KNIFE.

I SUGGEST YOU CHECK YOUR FACTS. VIOLENT CRIMES, COMMITTED WITH FIREARMS ARE UP 400% in the past three years in England. THOSE NUMBERS, INFIDEL, ARE NUMBERS POSTED BY THE UN. London is MORE DANGEROUS THAN ANY AMERICAN CITY.

The ONLY PEOPLE WHO OWN GUNS IN ENGLAND ARE GOVERNMENT AGENTS AND CRIMINALS. Period. End of story.

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

Suppressors are simple devices. Their method of operation is commonly understood. Wikipedia has an article on it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suppressor

GunKid was apparently earning a living making these things for a period of time before he sold one to an ATF agent.

If you think you will need one for SHTF just wait till there is no longer any enforcement agencies or law to worry about and use your knowledge to make your own.

In practical terms you either have to give up power by going subsonic or accept that your suppressor will only make your position a little more difficult to pinpoint rapidly. Tactically not that horribly useful even if they might have their niche. The irony here, and why should this be a suprise? is that suppressors are really great for the mundane purposes of hunting and target shooting. In both cases they are a safety device that will prevent hearing dammage and in the case of hunting they avoid disturbing other game or the guy down the way trying to take a nap. I have heard it is considered bad form in Germany to shoot without a suppressor.

Anyway I can't really think of a situation where I would need a suppressor that I would be as well served with a naturally quiet weapon, such as just about any impact or cutting weapon, a bow, a sling, a blowgun, big rock, etc.

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

I have heard of people using a short lawnmower muffler temporarily attached to the end of a semiautomatic pistol with an extended barrel. Such as a Colt combat commander with a 5" barrel. The 3/4" part of the barrel protruding provides the surface needed to attach the lawnmower muffler. You can see through these lawnmower mufflers and the inside diameter is sufficient to allow a 45 caliber bullet to pass. If the barrel were threaded at the end to match the lawnmower muffler, one could unscrew it from the end and simply replace the barrel with the stock one the gun came with. An unmodified spare lawnmower muffler would be hard to convict someone with unless caught in the act of using it...

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

markt,
The BOLDED PART is what would not ONLY get you arrested but also thrown in jail for a LONG time.

The barrel threaded to match the lawnmower muffler would DEFINITELY be 'INTENT' in the eyese of the BATF. Sorry, but these days, having parts THAT MIGHT be able to be made into a suppressor can get you arrested and thrown UNDER the jail. One guy had tubes and washers, that's all, and was thrown into jail forever.

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

Threading the end of a barrel could also be used to screw on a muzzle brake, which is a perfectly legal option. One could even make their own muzzle brake from a section of an old barrel and deliberately thread it with the same threads as the lawnmower muffler. That way you could just screw on the muzzle brake afterwards to prove legal intent. Muzzle brakes are common things legally sold all over the internet. The only time you'd be at risk is the short interval of time the lawnmower muffler would be in use. Afterward do the switch and keep the lawnmower muffler in a box of lawnmower parts. It'd be pretty difficult to convince a jury to send a man to prison for possession of lawnmower parts. :D

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

I've had Cans for many years without any of those visits you speak about.
No big deal.

I think there is a very LARGE benefit to being able to take game in an area without being heard. IMHO

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

It is not illegal to own a rifle. It is illegal to own a handgun

I will bet a silver round that these people below are not really into collecting stamps

http://www.nra.org.uk/

http://www.nsc-bisley.co.uk/common/p...06/csr06-5.jpg
http://www.nsc-bisley.co.uk/common/p...06/csr06-5.jpg

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

Did you ACTUALLY READ the website you posted?

"Whilst the (new) Home Office guidance has recently been circulated . . . there remains an issue in respect of firearms certificate holders who have authority to use their firearms for target shooting in that the condition upon their certificate currently will most likely restrict them to the use of Ministry of Defence approved ranges."

It's a shooting club and they are NOT QUITE SURE if what they are doing IS LEGAL.

They are DESPERATELY TRYING to get the government to 'allow them' to shoot on ranges approved by their government. And I PROMISE they don't get to actually take anything home, but the weapons MUST stay at the 'government approved range'.

NO LEGAL CIVILIAN OWNERSHIP OF ANY FIREARMS.

I STAND BY WHAT I SAY.

If all you can do is take it out and play with it WHEN THE GOVERNMENT SAYS IT'S OK, IT'S NOT OWNERSHIP. OWNERSHIP IMPLIES THAT YOU OWN IT, YOU DO WHAT YOU WANT WITH IT (like take it HOME with you, for instance), WHICH IS NOT POSSIBLE IN THE UK. PERIOD. END OF STORY.

This is a bunch of guys BEGGING THEIR GOVERNMENT FOR THE RIGHT TO PLAY WITH THEIR WEAPONS WHEN THE GOVERNMENT SAYS IT'S OK. THEY ARE CURRENTLY ATTEMPTING TO GET THE FIREARMS OWNERSHIP LAWS CHANGED.

SO FAR, NO JOY.

I STAND BY WHAT I SAY.

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

Yeah the UK doesn't allow firearms of any sort. If you are a rich chubby old guy with a huge mustache and tons of money you might be able to have a shotgun or two, but other than that uh well. Rent the movie Lock Stock and two smoking barrels. It's basically a movie about trying to get guns in England.

Oh and post on youtube. You'll have a ton of europeans posting on how Americans have a gun lust. TPTB was successful in europe. Well except Switzerland of course.

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

Yeah, I think if you're in Norway or Sweden (one of the two) and you do national service, you actually take your service rifle home. This was so the army could mobilise at a moment's notice.

That despicable Swiss gun culture, look at all the massacres they have there...

:sarc:

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

Old post, but I was looking through olds posts as a new member.
I suggest YOU check your facts, Wallew. I own two AR-15s, an old Enfield .303, three shotguns, a Sig, and a .22 plinker. All legally held, all licenced, and I am not and have never been LE, military, a government agent, or in fact a criminal. And I live in the UK.

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

My dream piece..

Glock 17 with suppresor.http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...G%26ie%3DUTF-8

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

I had a 17, but never a suppressor for it - no need for one where I shoot it! I prefer the Sig, but sold the Glock to buy the it - I'll have another one some day!

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

:emotions16::emotions16:

Don't mind Wallew.....he gets like that sometimes.

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

Quotes like these are always posted by people who have never fired a suppressed weapon let alone own one. I own many and I can tell you that they should be at the top of everyones tool list of survival items along with body armor and NVGs. While food, water and shelter are critical, the other mentioned tools will help you keep what is yours. Bx3

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

as long as we're going to dump on Wallew, i would point out that the first commercial firearms suppressors were marketed by Hiram Maxim as 'Silencers'. Having a business that sells silencers (PM for web address :wink:), i have shot with a decent number of contemporary cans. With subsonic ammunition and a good can, the mechanics of the gun are louder than the report....

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

I've shot a Tec-9 (gangsta! :D) with a suppressor WAY longer than the weapon itself, and I can safely say I could shoot it in my back garden and the neighbours would just think I was using a hammer drill - it literally was just the sound of it cycling, using subsonic rounds.
I don't need a silencer myself though - any time I shoot, either it is somewhere so deserted it doesn't matter, or it is at my local range where there isn't much point! And if it did ever come to an attack or SHTF scenario, then I think the noise would be the last of my worries. Nice toys to have though, and I would still quite fancy one just for the mechanical fun value of it.

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

Iptuous,
Again, NOT SILENCERS. If they were, they would allow the firearm to be fired WITHOUT CYCLING THE WEAPON and no sound would issue from the weapon.

You CAN NOT SHOW ME ONE THAT PRESENTS A ZERO SONIC FOOTPRINT. They DO NOT EXIST. Sorry.

As I said before, are they quiet? Yeah, like a soft cough. ARE THEY SILENT? NO. NEVER HAVE BEEN, NEVER WILL BE.

They SUPPRESS SOUNDS. They do NOT ELIMINATE (IE SILENCE) SOUND. That just doesn't happen.

Again, never has. Never will. At least not yet. Even YOU admit that. This is the same thing as a 'bullet proof' vest or 'bullet proof' glass (or auto or ... well you get the idea).

For every munition developed, there are people attempting to make ways for the public or the government to counter the damage. Can you make something 'bullet proof' if it's only shot once? Yeah, sure. As long as you don't mind the weight involved and you have no intention of actually GOING anywhere while wearing it.

Can guys like 'Second Chance' produce vests that stop pistol rounds? Sure. Rifle rounds? You betcha. There's even a guy who's developed a suit that can withstand explosives. But the suit itself weighs a ton and you can bet your last nickel that if you HAD to wear said suit and HAD to evade a bad guy or group of bad guys, you would not survive.

jf,
I've got friends that moved from the UK BECAUSE they would have been required to turn in their handguns AND THEIR SHOTGUNS AND RIFLES.

So they left. The ONLY WAY you have shotguns or rifles is that you don't ACTUALLY live in UK. Or you are part of the government. Or you have more money than the Queen.

Pome's are NOT ALLOWED to owe firearms. That is NOT LEGAL currently in UK. Not for all us 'lower peon' types. Sorry. If you do own the firearms you say you do, post the pics. You know, lay them out on your dining room table. I've posted all my firearms here on numerous occasions.

Then allow me to send that picture to Scottland yard. Lets see you 'own' them. You either don't. Or you ARE a government agent of some kind. POME's are NOT allowed to own firearms for their own protection or sporting purposes.

And no, keeping them at your gun club's safe and taking them out and shooting them when the GOVERNMENT SAYS IT'S OK IS NOT OWNERSHIP, as I said earlier.

If what you say were true, crimes committed with firearms would not be up over 400%. UK would NOT be arresting people for defending their homes with the only thing that has been left to them, a kitchen knife.

I can see it now. You are at home. Four 'youths' are breaking into your home. INSTEAD OF PICKING UP ONE OF YOUR LEGALLY OWNED FIREARMS AND DEFENDING YOURSELF, you go into the kitchen and get a knife.

Yeah. That's what I would do... :sarcasm:

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

Wallew - all you need to buy a shotgun in the UK is "Permission to shoot" - given either by a gun club, or by asking a farmer if you can shoot on his land. Why don't you have a look at the Met. Police pages, and download a firearms applications pack.
Likewise - to own any rifle, you need permission to shoot on a given piece of land. The local firearms officer then comes out, checks that the land is suitable, and that you have a "reasonable use" for the rifle, then he issues a certificate and you buy your rifle.
I don't keep them in my Gun Club's safe, I keep them in my own gun safe, in my own house.
I have houses in both England and Northern Ireland, both with gun safes, (which to be honest, you could get into in 5 minutes with an angle grinder - or break the locks with a crowbar), as they are just sheet steel.
Can you manage to look up the law? At all? Or are you too plain stupid?
Look - here it is, straight from Wikipedia -

"Licensing and legislation
All firearms in the United Kingdom must be licensed on either a firearm certificate (FAC) or a shotgun certificate.

Shotguns are defined in UK law as smoothbore firearms with barrels not shorter than 24" and a bore not larger than 2" in diameter, no revolving cylinder, and either no magazine or a non-detachable magazine that is not capable of holding more than two cartridges.[4] This effectively gives a maximum three round overall capacity, while shotguns with a capacity exceeding 2+1 rounds are subject to a firearm certificate. Shotguns thus defined are subject to a slightly less rigorous certification process.

A firearm certificate differs from a shotgun certificate in that justification must be provided to the police for each firearm; these firearms are individually listed on the certificate by type, calibre, and serial number. A shotgun certificate similarly lists type, calibre and serial number, but permits ownership of as many shotguns as can be safely accommodated. To gain permission for a new firearm, a "variation" must be sought, for which a fee is payable, unless the variation is made at the time of renewal, or unless it constitutes a one-for-one replacement of an existing firearm which is to be disposed of. The certificate also sets out, by calibre, the maximum quantities of ammunition which may be bought/possessed at any one time, and is used to record the purchasing of ammunition (except, optionally, where ammunition is both bought, and used immediately, on a range).

To obtain a firearm certificate, the police must be convinced that a person has "good reason" to own each gun, and that they can be trusted with it "without danger to the public safety or to the peace". Under Home Office guidelines, gun licenses are only issued if a person has legitimate sporting or work-related reasons for owning a gun. Since 1946, self-defence has not been considered a valid reason to own a gun. The current licensing procedure involves: positive verification of identity, two referees of verifiably good character who have known the applicant for at least two years (and who may themselves be interviewed and/or investigated as part of the certification), approval of the application by the applicant's own family doctor, an inspection of the premises and cabinet where guns will be kept and a face-to-face interview by a Firearms Enquiry Officer (FEO) also known as a Firearms Liaison Officer (FLO). A thorough background check of the applicant is then made by Special Branch on behalf of the firearms licensing department. Only when all these stages have been satisfactorily completed will a license be issued.

Any person who has spent more than three years in prison is automatically banned for life from obtaining a gun licence.[5]

Any person holding a gun licence must comply with strict conditions regarding such things as safe storage. These storage arrangements are checked by the police before a license is first granted, and on every renewal of the licence. A local police force may impose additional conditions on ownership, over and above those set out by law. Failure to comply with any of these conditions can mean forfeiture of the gun licence and surrender of any firearms to the police.

The penalty for possession of a prohibited firearm without a certificate is currently a mandatory minimum five year prison sentence and an uncapped fine."

Do you still feel so smart, and that you have "done your research"?

Seriously, you have lost this argument - so perhaps you should just give up - or have you recently become the Chief Constable and changed the laws?

Edited for typos.

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

And by the way - "good reason" includes hunting. I've shot many's a deer in the Scottish Highlands, completely legally.
Please eat your words, I have made some fine bolognese tonight to help them slip down a little easier.

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

Dang! that's a serious peeve you got going there :wink:
Like you said. I totally admit that they don't make it 100% silent. but they can make it hollywood quiet, where it just goes 'pfft' and you can actually hear the hammer.

However!....my point was just to bust yer chops that the first suppressors on the market WERE marketed as 'Silencers'. It wasn't Hollywood that came up with the term. It was the inventor, Sir Hiram Maxim. You can't argue with that, no?

Again, I'm just bustin' chops and splitting frog hairs.... :D

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

http://www.met.police.uk/firearms-enquiries/forms.htm

Oh, look at that, wallew.

Wonder what those forms are for?

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

UMMMMMM.....Iptuous is correct. Maxim's original marketing and patents both called the suppressors, "Maxim Silencers", as a trade name and description.

Best as always,

Bob

Sidebar-IIRC (hopefully someone can confirm or tell me I am full of ......whatever), there are a couple of countries in the EU (Sweden and Norway, maybe???) that REQUIRE a suppressor for any hunting in that country???? Sorry if I am wrong-too tired from work today to look it up-just going by my senile memory... :)

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

JF,
Good GOD MAN. How freakin delusional are you?

First you need PERMISSION. Then you get to see a 'local firearms officer'. The you must have a 'reasaonable use' and if you are LUCKY you get a certificate.

Dude, that's not 'ownership'. That letting the SLAVES (POME'S) play with their toys. As soon as someone decides you MUST turn your toys in AGAIN, you WILL give it up. Just like all those crying POME men who turned in all THEIR handguns, shotguns and rifles already like good little slaves when they were told to.

How much AMMO do you keep with all these firearms you SAY you have? Oh, that's right, you have to have PERMISSION to get ammo also. Failed to MENTION that one, yes?

Good GOD man. I guess you and 'MR FIVE FINGERS' means you 'got lucky' last night also. YAWN.

Don't need permission. Don't need a certificate. Don't NEED NO STINKIN BADGES....

What a crock of crap. You don't own FIREARMS. At least so far that you've been able to ACTUALLY show us any. YAWN.

Hey IPTUOUS,

Geez, and Bill Clinton NEVER HAD SEX WITH THAT WOMAN. Yeah, right. After all, it's ONLY words. But the TRUTH IS AS YOU SAID:

Like you said. I totally admit that they don't make it 100% silent

That clears it up for EVERBODY. Even YOU ADMIT, they are NOT SILENCERS. THEY ARE SUPPRESSORS.

You can call it anything you want. That's like calling a 'magazine' a 'clip'. Which MOST ignorant people do. Same thing with calling a SUPPRESSOR a SILENCER.

And yeah, I've ALREADY READ Maxim's patent a LONG time ago. Regardless of what you WANT to believe, it was simply marketing. His NOR ANYONE ELSE'S SUPPRESOR can ELIMINATE sound. So it AIN'T A SILENCER. Or do you interchange 'magazine' and 'clip' with each other also?

EVERY PART ON A FIREARM HAS A CORRECT NAME. Just because you choose to call a sear by another name, DOES NOT MAKE IT THE NAME.

They are Suppressors. Get OVER YOURSELF. Really.

BOBS,
You make my case for me:

Maxim's original marketing and patents both called the suppressors, "Maxim Silencers", as a trade name and description.

That's like the guy who designed the ship called Titanic said, "Not even GOD HIMSELF could sink her". This is EVEN from the same time frame. It's STRICTLY MARKETING. That doesn't actually make it true.

Take everything I said to Iptuous and just swap in your name. Just because someone wants to 'market' some product or idea, doesn't MEAN that the name of it IS CORRECT. It just means they thought that product would sell better being CALLED a silencer. Even though they have NEVER silenced any firearm.

When ANY of you can put up one that it does, then children, let's have this discussion again. Until then, you have ALL ADMITTED that I WAS CORRECT. You rationalizing it three ways from Sunday doesn't make it any more true. Period. End of story.

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

Ok.... Man. I give.
I wont poke at your peeve any more. God knows ive got some too (but im not gonna divulge them!) I was just havin some fun.

oh and the magazine vs. clip thing does irk me some times.

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

You mean the bullet holder thingy?? :emotions16:

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

Wallew - the "Permission" , is simply having a suitable place to shoot. I have my own land, so I can give myself permission to shoot.
If someone doesn't. they just go to the nearest farmer, drop a bottle of fine Irish Poitin by, and they have permission. It is not a legal permission, it is a permission by the landowner. Is that one cleared up?

The firearms officer is simply one of the the local policemen who has been given that duty, in addition to his normal police duties. It's an easy job - he rings me about every 3 years. arranges a time to check that all my guns are safe to shoot, safely kept, and that I haven't turned into a raging crackhead in the meantime.
I keep about 1000 shotgun rounds purely becase the price is going up - likewise for the ARs. Hold and reload 850 rounds for the Sig. I only keep about 200 rounds for the .22 because I can buy them from my local fishing/shooting shop about half a mile from my house, but I can hold as many as I want.

If I may have your permission, as a former "journalist", to type as you do in ridiculous capital letters- I hold GUNS in the UK, HANDGUNS AND RIFLES AND SHOTGUNS, do you understand? You are WRONG, you have not researched the laws you CLAIMED to have researched. You have NEVER BEEN TO or lived in the UK.
And I never, ever post pictures of myself, my house, my family or my guns on the internet. Nor am I stupid enough to reveal where I live, or where I keep my guns in the house (yes, you told us all!). The phrase "armchair warrior" springs to mind. Keep on with the military vehicles, Wallew... it gives people something to aim at.

Re: Silencers for revolvers?
 

I know that this has been discussed 1 million times.
How well do suppressors work on revolvers?
The US army, tunnel rats used suppressed revolvers in Viet Nam.
(I have a book on them,w a photo.)
But, how well did they work?
They must have been partially efffective, or they would not have been used.
Be well.

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

I've seen similiar pictures - I think the words "partially effective" are probably best. It would make your ears ring like hell firing an unsilenced wheelgun in that confined a space, and I suppose anything is better than nothing!

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

Oops, I forgot I have to say "unsuppressed", not "unsilenced"... :D

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

The silencer police seems to have expanded its jurisdiction beyond the gunboards, much like the clip police -- but popular colloquialisms tend to enter standard usage in time, even if flagrantly incorrect. Smokeless powder is not truly smoke-free, a black bear is often some other color, and white man is pretty far from white (unless you're an albino. You an albino?) I just checked my dictionaries, which all define "silencer" as basically a suppressor.

In any case, for those who cannot obtain CLEO sign-off on their NFA paperwork, a revocable living trust can be used to get by this, depending on where you live. A couple local shops here will set up a trust for you at no charge, so owning a suppressor is basically as simple as buying a firearm: Fill out a form similar to 4473, sign the trust paperwork, leave a check for the tax stamp, and come back in about 8 weeks to pick up your item (assuming you have no skeletons in your closet). Alternately, there's software to set up the trust, or you can see an attorney, but these will incur extra effort and expense.

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

Over here it's nearly always called a silencer among shooters, even though all gun owners know it doesn't "silence" any gun. What can I say, it's a colloquial term - I mean we buy an "exhaust" for cars, but in the US you call it a muffler, which is far more accurate.
Says I, who ran his 535i with nothing except the exhaust manifold for about an hour last night to run in it's new cam... at 2AM. 3 notes through the door from 3 different neighbours - 2 saying "Shut that thing the f*ck up", and one saying "What the hell was that you were running? I turned the TV off to listen to it, awesome sounding!" :D

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

E,
Yah, you give that one a try. IF YOU ARE NOT what the articles of incorporation SAY YOU ARE, IE a very narrow definition of a business whose main stock in trade ALLOWS you to own a SUPPRESSOR, then be my guest. As soon as the ATF finds out, your NEXT post will be from inside a FEDERAL PRISION.


JF,
Over here it's nearly always called a silencer among shooters

I just LOVE a good rationalization that makes your case. Dude, get a grip. ADMIT you are wrong. Even YOU seem to want to admit it. But it just somehow 'bugs' you that your are using an incorrect term.

Again, you must be a CLIP man, yes?

About the only CLIPS I know of are for the M1 Garand and any revolver that uses any kind of 'full moon clips' (.45 acp and 9mm come to mind).

But again, you consistently attempt to convince people to follow your INCORRECT USAGE OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE. Gotta love a POME who is attempting to get people to mangle 'the Queens English', yes?

Yes, suppressed revolvers were used as early as WWI. Though their popularity with behind the line soldiers really took off during WWII. In Viet Nam, some of the tunnel rats used SUPPRESSED pistols. It didn't make them 'silent', but it did save the shooters ears a lot of damage given their 'enclosed' proximity of firing a revolver.

Try this. Go into a closet with a door in your home. Take a bucket full of sand. Take one of your revolvers. CLOSE THE DOOR. Shoot it into the sand WITHOUT ear protection. Trust me when I tell you, the ringing in your ears should disappear within about a week. Been there, done that.

THAT'S WHY some of the tunnel rats carried SUPPRESSED revolvers. To save their hearing, which was critical to their staying alive.

Oh, just so we ALL understand, apparently you can suppress any kind of pistol by wrapping it in a pillow before using it. It appears that some folks just stick a potato on the end of a revolver, which apparently works well also.

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

Wallew - you seem to have avoided the main issue - go and read the thread again. In the UK we can have firearms, we can keep them in our houses, etc.
Read your post again, then read mine, and then admit you were mistaken. Everybody makes mistakes, we just don't ALL SHOUT ABOUT IT IN CAPITALS like you do.
To make it simple for you - in the UK we are allowed and permitted to have firearms, and keep them at home. Comprendez?

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

And by the way, you are addressing completely the wrong person about the silencer/supressor issue. Engage brain before opening mouth, as my father used to say.

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

Look, here is the link - http://goldismoney.info/forums/showp...8&postcount=11

Are you going to be a man, and admit that you are wrong, (as sometimes we all are), or are you going to be a child and avoid it, and maybe go and sit in your room?

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

Actually, in the industry, a "muffler" is called a "silencer"-this relates only to the automotive industry in the US and Japan though....LOL.

Seriously, the Maxim technology was used to develop "mufflers" for internal combustion engines originally. Something that has been of interest to me is the application of active sound suppression used today in the automotive industry by Tenneco and Arvin, applied to a firearm suppressor to see if it would work. I would think it would (never having designed a sound suppressor, I simply have no experience to draw on-hopefully someone can tell me if it has been done before)...but it would be bulky and draw a LOT of power for the speakers I would think.....

dunno?

Anyone help me out?

Best regards,

Bob

ADDENDUM: The reason for the terminology in this industry is as follows....

A "muffler" is any sound suppression device, but a "silencer" is a primary suppression device and a "resonator" is a sound attenuation device.

Just FYI....not saying it is right or wrong, it's the way it is.

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

I have never heard a gun owner over here call a magazine a "clip". In fact I didn't even know what a "clip" was, until I watched a few DVDs with americans in them. Yes, the normal word over here is "Silencer" instead of "Suppressor". And yes, it's the wrong word. So?

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

Yes, the corporation route involves risks and expenses, but a revocable living trust is a completely different loophole. I recommend taking advantage of it before Obaminable becomes the man in the White House.

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

Yeah, and the UK doesn't have a knife problem either...

http://www.goldismoney.info/forums/s...d.php?t=280003

JF,
Be so kind to us dumb azz Americans. Kindly show us your firearms YOU SAY you own.

Better yet, how about that degree you earned in GUNSMITHING. OR your NRA CERTIFICATION as a firearms instructor (pistol, rifle, home defense and personal protection).

OH, wait. That would be ME who's earned a degree in gunsmithing in 1998(goes well with the one I earned in Computers, circa 1981) and that would be ME who earned the NRA Certification as a firearms instructor.

The MOST TELLING thing you've said in this whole thread? YOU ADMIT YOU ARE WRONG. AND YOU JUST DON'T GIVE A CHIT...

And yes, it's the wrong word. So?

If you can't figure out the correct WORD for something, exactly how is ANYONE expected to actually take anything ELSE you say seriously when you admit you have no idea what you are talking about? NO ONE CAN. NO ONE DOES.

Show us your firearms.

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

Wallew - I've already said I don't post pictures of anything on the internet. Ever.
That's great you have a degree in gunsmithing, and are a NRA certified firearms instructor - but does that address the issue in the least?
GUNS ARE NOT ILLEGAL IN THE UK.
Which was the thing you were shouting about. Have you ever been to Bisley? No. It's the biggest shooting range in the world, and where is it? England. Where FIREARMS ARE ILLEGAL!!!
Seriously, suck it up and admit you are wrong, or shut the f*ck up - you know nothing, absolutely nothing, about UK firearms laws, yet you don't have the guts to say "I was wrong on that one".
Did you look at the Met. Police form pdf. file I gave you a link to? Yes? What is it? It's an application to own a gun - which if filled out, means you can own a gun. Did you read the Wiki information? Of course you did, but you still try and ignore it so that you are "right". You are a prick - and I don't even know you, but someone who does not have the guts to say "I got it wrong", is a prick as far as I am concerned.

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

Oh, look - here is the N. Irish version - you don't even have to go into the cop shop any more! http://www.psni.police.uk/30-1.pdf#x...=&id=4870297c2

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

What a fantastic way to introduce yourself. :sarc:

Sounds like you have a wee bit of pent up frustration you're trying to get out there. :puke:

Why don't you go play with other juveniles that show similar levels of courtesy.

BTW- you must be the first to have qualified to be banned in so few posts

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

Soooooo.... i think silencers would be a great thing for survival guns from a technical perspective.....sound reduction and excellent as a flash hider...
I don't see any reason not to have one. They've also become lighter and smaller in recent years with equal or better sonic reduction.
As far as legality, if you don't want to jump through the current hoops to legally own one....
Of course, im not endorsing this :D

hmmm. what about that guy who wrote songs?

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

About guns in the UK: I don't live there and have never been, but on the airgun boards I used to frequent--from the way UK people talked it was fairly tough to get a FAC permit just for a pellet gun that shot over 12-ft-lbs of energy. A 22LR has about 120 ft-lbs of energy, for comparisons here. You had to show that you had written permission of somewhere they considered suitable to shoot (usually only rural land qualified has having a pest elimination need) and you had to have liability insurance specifically for shooting a FAC weapon.

This may have changed since last I heard (2006-2007) but it did not sound good then.
-----
Buying a legal silencer doesn't make a lot of sense really.
It's the materials and engineering equivalent of about three lawnmower mufflers that cost $5 each at Wal-Mart, but the BATF charges a $200 tax on the manufacturer and then a $200 tax on the transfer to you... -and if things get to the point that you need to shoot anything subversively, you're probably going to be breaking at least one firearm law anyway.
-----
A 22LR rifle is about the only gun silencers make much sense on. A pistol with a silencer is much less concealable and handy, and a centerfire rifle with a silencer is a waste of time.
-----
You can make silencers yourself--it's just an empty can with holes for the bullet to go through, made of metal and welded together and held onto the barrel somehow. Fancy recurve baffles work better but aren't necessary, and are nearly impossible for the home-constructor to make properly. Straight-profile bull-barrel guns are useful for the purpose of slip-fit silencers (think Ruger MkII gov't pistol, and heavy-barrel 10-22's). Each one will cost about $10-$15 of materials to make, and can last thousands of shots. The bigger internal volume it is, the better it works. The thicker it is the longer it lasts, but the heavier it is.

The penalties are quite harsh however (in the US) and I would not consider one unless I was in a fairly-remote area and I knew that "the enforcers" had lots of other matters to take up their time.

-end-

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

Very handy info!!!!



T

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

I don't see how you come to this conclusion. Why 22LR rifle? I agree that they are good for them, but why exclusively?
If you aren't really going for 'quiet as possible' and you're not using subsonic ammo, then a silencer on any rifle is still beneficial by means of reducing sound and acting as a very nice flash suppressor. (expensive, and legally cumbersome, true. but we're talking about technical utility) the only drawback i see is the added length.
If you are going for 'quiet as possible', then you are using subsonic ammunition and the velocity should be capped around a little over 1000 f/s (depending on atmospheric conditions). If velocity is capped, the only thing you have to increase total energy is mass. Why would you limit yourself to 22LR in this case? (assuming you are using it for anything other than entertainment plinking, or hunting very small critters)
As far as pistols, i would think that 'handy' would not be that big of a deal, for most suppressed pistol purposes. If it's a 'one shot' operation, you are generally not going to be quick drawing, no? And if handy is a big criteria for you, there are some very nice integrally suppressed pistols available from quite a few manufacturers, such as a Ruger MkII.

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

The SKS employs a clip.

I like to say, "the magazine clips in right here".

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

Oddly enough I just watched a new episode of a cooking show in England where they went out beforehand and shot a cute little deer (they are apparently quite a bit smaller there on average) and then cooked it. The cook had a shotgun for this task and talked about his recreational shooting.

Probably a criminal, who knows...:sarcasm:

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

Coulda been a Govt. cook....

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

Why on earth did you shoot a bucket of sand while hiding in the closet with the door closed?

And was it hard getting the door to fit in there with you, the sand and your pistol?

Capitals imply yelling on a forum. Did the shooting in your closet cause permanant ringing? They must be ringing every time you use caps right? This is all starting to make sense...

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

Food looked way to good to be a government cook!:D

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

Now for a more serious post:

I think a supressor for home defence would be ideal. I keep firearms handy for for this reason but with a wife and small child in the house, I do not want to damage hearing in addition to the already traumatic intrusion. Sounds kind of dumb, but I was in a small enclosed living room in an apartment when a friend accidentally fired his .45. Loud does not begin to describe it. For home defence a light supressor would be fine. A loud noise is fine but if you could keep it from being damaging I'd be happy.

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

Actually, da big boom is my #1 concern with using a firearm within the confines of my home. I've thought it over a thousand times and the only conclusion I have come to is that not only are the intruder's ears going to experience the same treatment as mine he will also have to take a good amount of lead. So long as it hurts him more than it hurts me I'll still drop the hammer. I would expect the muzzle flash and the deafening bang to big part of the impact an intruder will be taking in addition to the lead.

I would be very interested in suppression for my home defense simply because in a panic moment I'm not going to take time to make sure I and all loved ones have their earplugs in. OTOH, in a panic situation I am not going to be keen on having a large can attached to the end of my firearm. I have spent years firing my guns unsuppressed and would likely need years more to get comfortable with suppressed firearms in tactical situations.

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

I agree. However, for home defence you wouldn't need a lot of suppression, just enough to prevent hearing damage. I'd bet the supressor could be faily small. While I have never fired a supressed firearm I hear their can be feed problems with autoloading pistols.

And wouldn't it be nice if everyone at the range used supressors. You could have a little chat while enjoying the fresh gunsmoke-laden air.

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

Currently produced suppressors are getting smaller, while maintaining or improving effective sound suppression. Contrary to what some others have said, the fancy baffle designs DO make a significant difference. They are also, therefore, lighter, with obvious handling advantages there.
The feeding problems with autoloading pistols can require the use of Linear Inertial Devices, which are currently integral in several models of suppressors or available as a separate thing.
and yes....it's very nice shooting suppressed pistols with subsonic ammo, such that you don't need the plugs. My dad and i will plink away at the dueling tree off the back porch while gabbing about stuff and junk. very pleasant.

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

Good info Ip!

Ip? Not sure if that sounds right.

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

Marco Pierre-White? I heard about the program, but I don't watch TV. It's illegal to shoot deer in the UK with a shotgun, you have to use a rifle. People do, of course, but they wouldn't televise it!
Technically you could do it with a slug, but then (although you can buy the lead), as soon as you load your cartridge with a slug it's illegal as well.
I suspect the mouthy, fancy-haired ponce had someone else shoot it for him with a proper rifle. And then proceeded to cook food that people would rather drive rusty nails into their eyes than eat, from what I was told!

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

Well, what would you do, when attacked by a bucket of sand? Shoot it until it stops moving, of course. Aim for the chest.

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

That wasn't the guy. This guy looked more like a washed up former member of the Clash. He constantly had a cigarette in his mouth and he did the shooting. I could have easily been mistaken on the firearm.

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

then there is always the banger trick with an empty 2 liter bottle



Anybody had any experience with the suppressed military AK? It is supposed to use a special round useing a 250 grain .366" bullet in a openned up 7.62x39 case.

Re: Silencers for survival guns?
 

I've never shot these improvised one-shots, but i've always been curious about their efficacy. I do remember, however, that they used to sell thread adapters at the gun shows that went from the various standard muzzle threads to that of a 2-liter bottle, until BATF decreed that they were, themselves suppressors...